Hindustani wishing 1984 on Sikhs

[shastarSingh]

  On 1/9/2022 at 3:58 PM, proactive said:

No, I look at the issue without preconceived notions and bias whereas you keep on harping about this because it suits your anti-Jat agenda. Your only knowledge of this issue is some freshies on the building sites who probably realised how gullible you are and told you BS stories about how they as Jats lord over their village. 

I lived in Punjab in my younger days and this might actually shock you because you seem to think that I am some kind of Jat supremacist but like other Jat kids in my village we had friends from all castes. This is the lived experience of most  Sikhs in rural areas. I have never heard of a Jat in my village raping a Dalit woman much less your favourite accusation that Jats are going around raping Dalit women with impunity.  That is so laughable and the only people egging you on are others of your ilk who also have an agenda and like you no experience of living in Punjab.  

If what you say is correct that Jat oppression is leading to Dalit conversion then why isn't this happening in states outside Punjab? Dalits undergo oppression a hundred times worse than anything you could dream up of what Jats do in Punjab. Then the Dalits outside Punjab would be flocking to churches but that isn't the case because they know that if they convert formally then they will lose the SC benefits and the benefits they get from the Christian missionaries can never match the SC benefits. 

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I just asked my mom. She lived in pind for quite a lot of her younger days.

She says that it's true that there are separate gurdwara for jatts and mazbi sikhs but she never heard or witnessed any physical harm done to mazbis by jatts or any rape happening.

In fact my mom said that many jatt landlords helped mazbis financially in doing marriage of their daughters.

I m born and brought up in Ludhiana.  During school days or even up to now I hv never seen mazbi sikhs being treated badly by jatts.

Yes bit of racism or casteism is everywhere as we are all not brahmgyanis.

[Premi5]

  On 1/9/2022 at 4:02 PM, proactive said:

Can you give me examples of this. 

They would not share food with them or touched by them. Not wanting to shak Amrit if a 'lower caste' was sharing the Amrit. 

And just casual remarks generally that denigrate

[proactive]

  On 1/9/2022 at 4:12 PM, shastarSingh said:

I just asked my mom. She lived in pind for quite a lot of her younger days.

She says that it's true that there are separate gurdwara for jatts and mazbi sikhs but she never heard or witnessed any physical harm done to mazbis by jatts or any rape happening.

In fact my mom said that many jatt landlords helped mazbis financially in doing marriage of their daughters.

I m born and brought up in Ludhiana.  During school days or even up to now I hv never seen mazbi sikhs being treated badly by jatts.

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The only thing one could say was discrimination was that whenever the Dalit women who used to help my mother do household tasks were given tea during their break they used to sit on the PEERHIYAN while my mother sat on a chair or on a MANJA. We never had any separate cups for them we used the same one as the ones we drank from. The only issue was the partibazzi on the village where one group of Dalits would align with one party of Jats and the others with another party of Jats. There was a case where the Dalits wanted to step up their own private school and the Jats wanted that there should only be one private school in the village for everyone.  The Dalits didn't agree and the Jats denied them access to the area where the Dalit women used to go and do Jangal Pani and my family allowed them access to the area through our fields. 

But for Daily this is what happens in Punjab everyday-;

Watch from 4:32 to 9:30. These scenes are where Daily gets his views about what Punjab is like.

 

[shastarSingh]

  On 1/9/2022 at 4:34 PM, proactive said:

Watch from 4:32 to 9:30. These scenes are where Daily gets his views about what Punjab is like.

Lol funny old Punjabi films.

[proactive]

  On 1/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, shastarSingh said:

Lol funny old Punjabi films.

I can just imagine Daily googling " Jats oppressing Dalits in Punjab" so he can come with a news story to back up his views. Sad really. The guy thinks Punjab is like 1980s South Africa with it's apartheid. 

[shastarSingh]

There are good and bad people in every community.

Every community tend to hv some different cultural characteristics.

Mazbis tend to be a bit loyal towards govt.

Jatts as a community tend to be a bit baaghi. Yes on individual level, many gaddaars in jatts too.

Regarding tarkhaan brothers, they still seem to be very strict about not marrying outside their community. I hv seen many jatts marrying outside their caste. I could be wrong but this is what I hv observed or listened from my elders.

[GurjantGnostic]

Hey guys I was just goo...well this is awkward...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jats+oppressing+Dalits+in+Punjab&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[proactive]

  On 1/9/2022 at 5:15 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

Hey guys I was just goo...well this is awkward...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jats+oppressing+Dalits+in+Punjab&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

Ok on the face it an open and shut case.

But let's see the results in order-;

1. The Singhu border beadbi 'torture' story and then fact to state that Jats own 93% of farmland and Dalits own 3.5%. How is that oppression. Should Jats who on the main have on average 2-3 acres give up their lands so that Dalits aren't landless anymore? It's not like every Jat owns a 100 acres each and could afford to give some land to the Dalits. 

2. A dispute over a shrine - as for the Dalit claim to have a management in it because of it being built on common land of the village. You probably doesn't understand what Shaamlaat land is, it is the land held in common NOT by the whole village but by the families of the founders of that village. It was not a Sufi shrine, it has always been a Gurdwara. Look at how the Damdami Taksal is presented by the writer as a RW organisation and how Santji presented. If anything is seems to an attempt by Dalits supported by vested interests to wrest control of the Gurdwara and bring all sorts Ad-Dharm, Raviassia and Bhaniarawale customs into the Gurdwara. All the Damdami Taksal said was that the Gurdwara committee members should be Keshdhari irrespective of their caste.  This article fails to mention this fact and imples that the Damdami Taksal was on the side of the Jats. The Dalits many of whom cut their hair wanted to assert the right of Dalits to manage the shrines even if they did not practice Sikhi. Is this caste oppression? The BSP party was instrumental in giving this a caste rather than a religious angle. They wanted to consolidate he Dalit votes and try and play the caste politics of UP and Bihar in Punjab which didn't wash in Punjab. Another factor which proves that there is no such thing as the widespread oppression of Dalits in Punjab like in UP and Bihar. The only time the BSP party gained any Lok Sabha seats was when the  Akali Dal Mann supported the BSP candidates in the 1989 Lok Sabha elections. 

3. We Are One’: Why Punjab’s Landless Dalits are Standing with Protesting Farmers - As for the village common lands, the politicians in an attempt to gain votes want to give these lands which belong to the Jat farmers to the Dalits. Why should not the Jats object to the land which was held in common by them being given for free to Dalits? If the government is so generous then let it give Dalits land from its own landholdings or even compensate the Jats holders of the common land.  

I could go thorough most of these other news reports but rather than the rampant oppression that Daily and you allege the truth is quite different. 

 

 

[dallysingh101]

  On 1/9/2022 at 4:45 AM, proudkaur21 said:

So these sikh sc will convert to any religion that gives them benefits then whats the point of having these people in our religion?

It's not like juts aren't converting to christianity in droves back home is it. I don't think your point above stands in context. 

[dallysingh101]

  On 1/9/2022 at 4:12 PM, shastarSingh said:

I m born and brought up in Ludhiana.  During school days or even up to now I hv never seen mazbi sikhs being treated badly by jatts.

That's because Malwai juts are more in tune with Sikhi than the average maybe?