Did any of the Guru's marry outside their caste?

[Guest Question]

Did any of the Guru ji's marry outside their caste? Iv heard that Mata Gujri (Gujjar Kaur) was of a Gujjar background?   

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Guru Sahib doesn't have caste,(he is the light of Vaheguru), but if you are talking about the physical body of the Gurus, then none of the Gurus historically that had married, married outside of the Ksychatria varna. But despite that I really would like you to read what was said in a previous topic, to understand that the Anand Karajs were not caste-based, but rather based on the system of Gurmat, (Guru Sahib didn't just marry any Ksychatrias, but rather spiritually elite beings).

On 5/12/2014 at 2:02 PM, Mehtab Singh said:

Lets try to think of it out of the box for a minute.

I've also come across another question "Why was none of the Sikh Gurus a woman?"

Back in those days, it was the so-called "high caste" people, especially males, who were calling the shots, setting norms etc. Guru Sahibaan were "physically born" in Kshatriya families, and were all males. But here is where it gets shocking. Even though they were born males, and born in Kshatriya (high caste) families, married within what we call as "same caste", they still preached the equality of genders and futility of ancestry/caste. This was a shock to Indian society and gave birth to a new revolution altogether.

Had a saint from a so-called "lower caste" preached against the caste cancer, or a female saint preached against gender inequality back in those days, they would be mocked at, and people would taunt them and say "Yeah well too bad for you, but you will obviously whine about it, hahaha!" But guess what, Guru Sahibaan shook the very foundations of that society once They (being males from "high caste" families) preached against these evils of caste cancer and gender inequality.

Lets not analyse too much into why Guru Sahibaan did what They did, lets see Their purpose and message behind it. We are not at Their level to fully comprehend the deeply spiritual reasons as to why They did what They did.

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥
Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥
Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions?

 

[Guest]

The first outside of caste marriage was done in the 1800s by Kavi Santhohk Singh Ji.

[superkaur]

On 27/07/2017 at 3:17 PM, Guest Question said:

Did any of the Guru ji's marry outside their caste? Iv heard that Mata Gujri (Gujjar Kaur) was of a Gujjar background?   

Why does it matter?

To Sikhs it doesn't matter what caste they married, those who say they married within their same castes were not there to witness it or prove it. End of the day the Guru's lead people out of living and thinking like subhuman dark practises and into the light through their love, wisdom and humanity.

[Guest Guru's had no caste]

On 27/07/2017 at 3:17 PM, Guest Question said:

Did any of the Guru ji's marry outside their caste?

Iv heard that Mata Gujri (Gujjar Kaur) was of a Gujjar background?   

Yes that is correct. Mughal, Hindutva and British writers with a hatred of Sikhi were keen to push the lie about all the Guru Sahibaan supposedly being of one background - however, the well known fact that Mata Gujjar Kaur Ji were of Gujjar background obliterates the lies of the enemies of Sikhi.

Guru Nanak rejected their supposed birth caste by tossing aside the janeu thread bestowed upon them flatly rejecting the false Hindu and Muslim concept of caste.

The Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi were not Khatri clans and nor were the Guru ki Mahal (spouses of our Guru Sahibaan). However, they were wrongly labelled as such by the idiotic notion that merely because Guru Nanak Dev Ji's parents were of a Khatri background then it must mean that all spouses and subsequent Guru Sahibaan must be from the same background thereafter. All our Guru Sahibaan had no caste and rejected and attacked the false notion of caste as a cancer within society.

It's kind of like assuming that if Obama is African American then that (falsely) means Trump and all other subsequent Presidents and their wives (including Melania Trump) must be African American as well.

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

16 hours ago, Guest Guru's had no caste said:

The Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi were not Khatri clans and nor were the Guru ki Mahal (spouses of our Guru Sahibaan). 

Stop making a false history. Read the actual history from Dasam Granth on the Sodhis and Bedis.

[BhForce]

On 7/27/2017 at 7:47 PM, Guest Question said:

Did any of the Guru ji's marry outside their caste? Iv heard that Mata Gujri (Gujjar Kaur) was of a Gujjar background?   

Where did you read Mata Gujri ji was a Gujjar? I would really like to know what source someone was using to say that, other than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine. If you don't post a source, all can safely assume that is just pure concocted fantasy.

All of our Gurus were married in their own social group, the Khatris.

The Gujjars are a nomadic Muslim tribe that keeps cattle.

Here's the entry in Mahan Kosh for Mata Gujri ji:

ਗੁਜਰੀ ਮਾਤਾ 

ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਲਾਲਚੰਦ ਸੁਭਿਖੀਏ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੀ, ਮਾਤਾ ਬਿਸਨਕੌਰ ਦੇ ਉਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਉਪਜੀ ਬੇਟੀ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਿਆਹ ੧੫. ਅੱਸੂ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੬੮੬ ਨੂੰ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦੁਰ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੋਇਆ, 

 

Mata Gujri ji's father was Lal Chand of Kartarpur, and mother was Bisan Kaur. Does that sound like Muslim names? Assuming Lal Chand and his family were Gujjars, do you think that Guru Hargobind Ji could find no other marriage match than a bunch of wandering Muslim cattle-herders? Lal Chand and family resided at Kartarpur, having formerly resided at Lakhnaur. Resided, not wandering around.

 

Also, assuming Lal Chand ji's family were Gujjars, I think you know very well that if Muslims want to marry their daughter to somebody non-Muslim, they insist on the groom getting circumsized and initiated into Islam, if only as a formality.

 

So do you think that our Satguru, Guru Teg Bahadur ji, was a Muslim and had accepted that Mohammed was the Prophet of God? If so, what was the point of Emperor Aurangzeb beheading Guru Sahib? Guru ji was already a Muslim!

 

Finally, how many families name their daughter after their caste? As was pointed out on this discussion board, would "Mata Jatti" or "Mata Chamari" make any sense? "Mata Tarkhani", "Mata Julahan"? I think you should look for the meaning of Gujri elsewhere, not in Gujjar, my friend.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BhForce said:

Where did you read Mata Gujri ji was a Gujjar? I would really like to know what source someone was using to say that, other than pulling it out of where the sun don't shine. If you don't post a source, all can safely assume that is just pure concocted fantasy.

All of our Gurus were married in their own social group, the Khatris.

The Gujjars are a nomadic Muslim tribe that keeps cattle.

Here's the entry in Mahan Kosh for Mata Gujri ji:

ਗੁਜਰੀ ਮਾਤਾ 

ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਲਾਲਚੰਦ ਸੁਭਿਖੀਏ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੀ, ਮਾਤਾ ਬਿਸਨਕੌਰ ਦੇ ਉਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਉਪਜੀ ਬੇਟੀ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਿਆਹ ੧੫. ਅੱਸੂ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੬੮੬ ਨੂੰ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦੁਰ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਹੋਇਆ, 

 

Mata Gujri ji's father was Lal Chand of Kartarpur, and mother was Bisan Kaur. Does that sound like Muslim names? Assuming Lal Chand and his family were Gujjars, do you think that Guru Hargobind Ji could find no other marriage match than a bunch of wandering Muslim cattle-herders? Lal Chand and family resided at Kartarpur, having formerly resided at Lakhnaur. Resided, not wandering around.

 

Also, assuming Lal Chand ji's family were Gujjars, I think you know very well that if Muslims want to marry their daughter to somebody non-Muslim, they insist on the groom getting circumsized and initiated into Islam, if only as a formality.

 

So do you think that our Satguru, Guru Teg Bahadur ji, was a Muslim and had accepted that Mohammed was the Prophet of God? If so, what was the point of Emperor Aurangzeb beheading Guru Sahib? Guru ji was already a Muslim!

 

Finally, how many families name their daughter after their caste? As was pointed out on this discussion board, would "Mata Jatti" or "Mata Chamari" make any sense? "Mata Tarkhani", "Mata Julahan"? I think you should look for the meaning of Gujri elsewhere, not in Gujjar, my friend.

Damn son you just went crazy!!! A+ post

[Guest Hindu]

14 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Stop making a false history.

Can you confirm which kingdoms those clans held in India as there is no record of that in any history books.

[BhForce]

On 8/1/2017 at 0:28 AM, Singh123456777 said:

Damn son you just went crazy!!! A+ post

Thanks, Bapu!

ਧੰਨਵਾਦ, ਬਾਪੂ!